I'm going to be very clear on my stance from the very beginning. In my opinion, film dubbing has been the SINGLE, MOST NOTORIOUS, BIGGEST MISTAKE that the Spanish film industry has ever made. Of course, since this decision was taken back in General Franco's dictatorship, we could always use his figure as a scapegoat.
For a start, film dubbing meant for the Spanish film industry, that foreign actors and actresses, especially for films coming from Hollywood, spoke the exact accent found on local films. From a competitive point of view, this was not a very wise decision, since the Spanish film industry, due to others factors other than film quality and potential and most probably related to our recent dictatorship, could not put up with the high-tech productions coming from Hollywood. I mention this because it is not only a higher artistic achievement, but also a huge budget, one of the main factors that have projected Hollywood films into stardom. In essence, many English actors have ended up in Hollywood because of their earning potential, but they constantly prove to come from polished and highly cultivated drama schools.
Moreover, we all know that dubbing never produces an exact translation of any given artistic material. Due to culture, pragmatics, idiomatic phrases etc, it seems to me that one is "losing out" on some aspects of a film, when it is dubbed. However, we must also admit that to be able to follow the subtitles, one must also have a minimum level of language.
But what comes first, the chicken or the egg? If one person is constantly shown films with subtitles, not only will that person become accustomed to reading subtitles, but they will also improve their foreign language learning. On top of this, it is better to hear to the "real" George Clooney than to have to listen to a man from Barcelona who is "trying" to imitate his voice. You don't really get the "real macoy".
Needless to say, film dubbing has become a big business and corrupted area, which I think is concentrated on a couple of firms in Madrid and Barcelona. It is a very closed circle, like traffic air controllers, who own huge amounts of money and do not let other companies or private translators participate in this business. This is totally unfair.
In most countries with an advanced level of English, as it is the case of the Netherlands and Scandinavian nations, all films but cartoons for little children, are subtitled. And God how it does show.
I have always been in favour of subtitling films instead of dubbing them. When a film is dubbed, you cannot perceive the real message,that is, translation may "corrupt" the original intention. It is obvious that if you really want to learn a foreign language you should watch films with subtitles or even without them.
Nonetheless, this is extremely difficult in a country like Spain. Not everybody is happy with subtitles and this situation is quite understandable. After all, we are not in a bilingual country.
I do prefer subtitles. I usually watch series and movies in its original language. It helps us to understand better that language and also to adquire it because we get use to the different ways of pronunciations and of course, new vocabulary. At first it could be a little bit difficult to get what they're saying, but after a long time, you don't even have to read the subtitles because you get almost everything. That's why we understand better the American English than the British one, because of series and movies (and also songs).
And as Yssa has said, when you dub a movie you cannot get the real message because sometimes the translation is too different.
Seeing a dubbed film is something I nowadays only do at the cinema, because it is quite a different experience to see a film at the cinema than at home, even when you have a home-cinema sound system installed! I recognise that sometimes we can spend so much time reading that we lose some important elements on the image, so I understand in a way that people prefer series or films dubbed into Spanish.
My friends are obliged by me to see films or series not dubbed but with subtitles (I'm also used to American English accents because of the series that we most like). It is said that the soundtracks are also prepared for the original voices, so that could be a good excuse to see a film in any original language.
I think there is no doubt about what is the best way to learn a language: watching a film with subtitles. Or even better, without them.
So, you're in favour of subtitles not only because it's better to learn but also because you miss important things in translations. That reminds me that last week I watched a film. The English title was "The international" and the Spanish title was "Dinero en la sombra", title translations are frequently inaccurate...
Indeed they are inaccurate, but I think this issue has more to do with the property rights rather than with inaccuracy. We can only watch in our cinemas a tiny fraction of the tremendous rate of film production that comes out every year. By starting out with Bollywood (India),the biggest film production location in the planet, not Hollywood, and then counting the rest of world production, we can clearly see the vast number of titles which are copyrighted yearly. Thus, few title possibilities are left out for modern films, and hence, from this issue we can understand the inaccuracy. I think this is why some producers keep going back to the traditional formula of developing a second, a third, a fourth part and so on. Let's also keep in mind that the national cinema of any given country might have taken up the "precise title translation" for an international film, and possibly that translation will not be allowed. I think this is funny, but a film director like Almodovar must drive some foreign countries crazy by having brought out titles like "Mujeres al borde de un ataque de nervios" or "Pepi, Luci, Bom y otras chicas del monton". This last title was incorrectly translated as "Pepi, Luci, Bom and other girls like Mom", being the last part of it totally out of focus. And this title wouldn't have been fighting with another one for patent rights.
I think we must also separate the notion of "monolingual subtitles" from "bilingual subtitles". When we are shown two languages in a film, i.e. "bilingual subtitles", we are constantly processing information in our minds, we are taking the sounds of one language and converting it into another language with the aid of subtitles. Hence from my point of view, "bilingual subtitles" provide the highest learning experience of a foreign language as well as requiring the greatest effort.
On the other hand, "monolingual subtitles" provide a pronunciation enhancement and a written reminder if we have missed out any pronounced words. I honestly think that any film should be viewed at least twice: firstly with "bilingual subtitles" and secondly with "monolingual subtitles".
Last but not least, we encounter dubbing. We must remind here that both dubbing and "bilingual subtitles" are forms of translations, and hence they do have a risk factor of inaccuracy, which might be dependant on may different variables. From a learning perspective, dubbing provides the least amount of effort, i.e. zero. Indeed, no foreign language is provided, therefore no effort, or what is worse, no learning takes place. We become like "passive viewers" who take a film experience solely as a form of entertainment. Using "bilingual subtitles", we are "active viewers" who participate more in the whole film process, and what is even better is that we "kill two birds with one stone", by also improving our foreign language skills.
Wow! It's hard to add something new now since all of the ideas I support, or most of them, have been already said... I obviously prefer subtitled films. As Dani said, nowadays I only watch dubbed films when I go to the cinema and because there is no other choice, not because I like it. Watching films, or whatever it is, in original version is one of the best practices an English (in this case) learner can do to improve his/her listening skills. What's more, it's also good because you can acquire vocabulary without realizing and also improve your pronunciation in a very unconscious way.
I am in favour of watching subtitled films and it is the one that I usually use because we can make cultural associations between the language and its country. Besides, subtitled films support the learning process of a language, especially in the branch of pronunciation, which is the most difficult to get. As the sound of the film change when it's dubbed, I get upset if I notice that in the "Spanish version" of it some scenes have another completely different meaning than the original because of the usage of sound, for example this would happen if the characters are eating in a restaurant and we only listen to the sound of the voices and not to the sound of the whole environment too. However I also understand that some people find it difficult to read subtitles and watch what is happening in the film at the same time, thus depending on the person it will be nicer to watch a film subtitled or dubbed.
I also prefer watching films with subtitles because thanks to it, you can see and listen language in 'real context' (although it is film); you can perceive expressions or words that are equivalent to your mother tongue and so on. In my case, I used to watch films with subtitles but I did not like American accent so much, so I stopped. Nowadays, I prefer going to the cinema and sometimes I watch a film with subtitles at home. As far as I am concerned, watching films with subtitles is an 'activity' for improving language skills.
Regarding the translation of the film's titles I don't believe that a literal translation is a good one, as far as I'm concerned. We have to take into account the target culture where the film is going to be exhibited. It's such a work to be a translator.
I am agree with most of my classmates because I prefer watching films with subtitles rather than watching dubbed films, especially when you want to learn a language, because it aloud the possibility to understand the dialogues and to listen character´s voices and how they pronounce. So, If we decide to watch dubbed films we should know that it is possible to have grammatical mistakes and that it changes the real perception of the film. This link, http://www.pepe-rodriguez.com/Anuncios_links/Links_miscelanea/Links_miscelanea_cine_doblaje_gazapos.htm , shows a website in which there are lots of mistakes when films have been translated. For example, the film “ Saving the Private Ryan” in the Spanish translation we can listen: “han habido 18 muertos, señor!”
I strongly recommend to use subtitles instead of dubbling. For us, students of our degree, it is obvious that it will helpful to use subtitles more than using dubbling. Subtitles helps us to follow the plot of the film (or the series) and moreover, we develop a better listening level and at the same time, the reading skill is also developed. Moreover, the accents and the character’s voices can help us to create our own accents and to learn how to be as fluent as possible. Futhermore, we can learn typicl sentences that can be used in several contexts only by listening or reading them on the films.
Appart from that, I think that dubbling is very useful too, over all for those people who do not understand English or who are not into learning new languages. Moreover, there is a lot of people who go to the cinema only to have fun and not to be listening and trying to understand a movie in a foreign language as English. For that reason, I think that all the movies here in Spain are dubbling.
Finally, I believe that it could be really interested to have a kind of cinema with real version films, without any kind of dubbling.
If someone wants to learn English is recommended to use subtitles to get more vocabulary, improve pronunciation and understanding other accents. When I lived in my country I saw the subtitled movies because movies are not dubbed there sometimes they put movies dubbed by Mexicans but most movies are subtitled, this also happens in cinema. Just arrived in Spain I used to watch dubbed films but now I try to watch subtitled films.
As most of my classmates, I normally watch films with subtitles, and sometimes even without them in order to challenge myself, and see if I can actually understand what I am hearing, but it is true that it is difficult sometimes.
Regarding the language of the subtitles, I think both English and Spanish should be used. The advantage of reading in English is that it gives you the possibility to relate what you are reading with what you are hearing, becoming aware of the pronunciation of many words you did not know and being able to recognize them afterwards in any context. As well, Spanish subtitles are also helpful as you become acquainted with the meaning in Spanish of the words and expressions, knowing therefore, how they are translated into English.
In my opinion, I encourage people to take the advantage of switching to original version from their remote control, as it is such a different experience to watch a film listening to the actors’ real voices! Moreover, it is very beneficial as you consciously and unconsciously learn new vocabulary, expressions and different accents; as well as you also develop you entonation and pronunciation skills.
Unfortunately, it is true that it is not a developed practice in our country. However, that is mainly because people are not used to it, and resist to move away from the simplicity and comfort of dubbed films.
I prefer the use of substitles because dubbing can change the meaning of the original message, moreover to learn English, or whatever language, is best to watch film or listen music in the original version, because it is the best way to learn a second language easily. However, I watch TV programmes or films which are dubbed because it is more easy for me to understand them.
For language learning is always better the subtitles instead of dubbing in whatever language.
I agree with most of my partners, I usually watch films and TV series with subtitles, also I try to watch without them, but it’s difficult for me to follow the whole film. I watch dubbing films when I watch it at the cinema or when I am going to watch with my family or friends because they don’t like to read the subtitles and look to the scenes at the same time, I know that is a bit stressful. The funny thing of dubbing is that when you are listening to one actor, for example Will Smith, then you watch another film with another different actor; you realize that their voices are the same. Another curiosity related to this is that the animated film, “Dr. Seuss the Lorax” (“Lorax: En busca de la trufula perdida”, see the Spanish translation), one of the actors is Danny Devito and I heard that he recorded his same voice in English and in Spanish as well, so he did the effort to translate his own voice, I don’t know if I explain well.
I'm going to be very clear on my stance from the very beginning. In my opinion, film dubbing has been the SINGLE, MOST NOTORIOUS, BIGGEST MISTAKE that the Spanish film industry has ever made. Of course, since this decision was taken back in General Franco's dictatorship, we could always use his figure as a scapegoat.
ResponderEliminarFor a start, film dubbing meant for the Spanish film industry, that foreign actors and actresses, especially for films coming from Hollywood, spoke the exact accent found on local films. From a competitive point of view, this was not a very wise decision, since the Spanish film industry, due to others factors other than film quality and potential and most probably related to our recent dictatorship, could not put up with the high-tech productions coming from Hollywood. I mention this because it is not only a higher artistic achievement, but also a huge budget, one of the main factors that have projected Hollywood films into stardom. In essence, many English actors have ended up in Hollywood because of their earning potential, but they constantly prove to come from polished and highly cultivated drama schools.
Moreover, we all know that dubbing never produces an exact translation of any given artistic material. Due to culture, pragmatics, idiomatic phrases etc, it seems to me that one is "losing out" on some aspects of a film, when it is dubbed. However, we must also admit that to be able to follow the subtitles, one must also have a minimum level of language.
But what comes first, the chicken or the egg? If one person is constantly shown films with subtitles, not only will that person become accustomed to reading subtitles, but they will also improve their foreign language learning. On top of this, it is better to hear to the "real" George Clooney than to have to listen to a man from Barcelona who is "trying" to imitate his voice. You don't really get the "real macoy".
Needless to say, film dubbing has become a big business and corrupted area, which I think is concentrated on a couple of firms in Madrid and Barcelona. It is a very closed circle, like traffic air controllers, who own huge amounts of money and do not let other companies or private translators participate in this business. This is totally unfair.
In most countries with an advanced level of English, as it is the case of the Netherlands and Scandinavian nations, all films but cartoons for little children, are subtitled. And God how it does show.
I have always been in favour of subtitling films instead of dubbing them. When a film is dubbed, you cannot perceive the real message,that is, translation may "corrupt" the original intention. It is obvious that if you really want to learn a foreign language you should watch films with subtitles or even without them.
ResponderEliminarNonetheless, this is extremely difficult in a country like Spain. Not everybody is happy with subtitles and this situation is quite understandable. After all, we are not in a bilingual country.
I do prefer subtitles. I usually watch series and movies in its original language. It helps us to understand better that language and also to adquire it because we get use to the different ways of pronunciations and of course, new vocabulary.
ResponderEliminarAt first it could be a little bit difficult to get what they're saying, but after a long time, you don't even have to read the subtitles because you get almost everything. That's why we understand better the American English than the British one, because of series and movies (and also songs).
And as Yssa has said, when you dub a movie you cannot get the real message because sometimes the translation is too different.
Seeing a dubbed film is something I nowadays only do at the cinema, because it is quite a different experience to see a film at the cinema than at home, even when you have a home-cinema sound system installed! I recognise that sometimes we can spend so much time reading that we lose some important elements on the image, so I understand in a way that people prefer series or films dubbed into Spanish.
ResponderEliminarMy friends are obliged by me to see films or series not dubbed but with subtitles (I'm also used to American English accents because of the series that we most like). It is said that the soundtracks are also prepared for the original voices, so that could be a good excuse to see a film in any original language.
I think there is no doubt about what is the best way to learn a language: watching a film with subtitles. Or even better, without them.
So, you're in favour of subtitles not only because it's better to learn but also because you miss important things in translations.
ResponderEliminarThat reminds me that last week I watched a film. The English title was "The international" and the Spanish title was "Dinero en la sombra", title translations are frequently inaccurate...
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ResponderEliminarIndeed they are inaccurate, but I think this issue has more to do with the property rights rather than with inaccuracy. We can only watch in our cinemas a tiny fraction of the tremendous rate of film production that comes out every year. By starting out with Bollywood (India),the biggest film production location in the planet, not Hollywood, and then counting the rest of world production, we can clearly see the vast number of titles which are copyrighted yearly. Thus, few title possibilities are left out for modern films, and hence, from this issue we can understand the inaccuracy. I think this is why some producers keep going back to the traditional formula of developing a second, a third, a fourth part and so on. Let's also keep in mind that the national cinema of any given country might have taken up the "precise title translation" for an international film, and possibly that translation will not be allowed. I think this is funny, but a film director like Almodovar must drive some foreign countries crazy by having brought out titles like "Mujeres al borde de un ataque de nervios" or "Pepi, Luci, Bom y otras chicas del monton". This last title was incorrectly translated as "Pepi, Luci, Bom and other girls like Mom", being the last part of it totally out of focus. And this title wouldn't have been fighting with another one for patent rights.
ResponderEliminarI think we must also separate the notion of "monolingual subtitles" from "bilingual subtitles". When we are shown two languages in a film, i.e. "bilingual subtitles", we are constantly processing information in our minds, we are taking the sounds of one language and converting it into another language with the aid of subtitles. Hence from my point of view, "bilingual subtitles" provide the highest learning experience of a foreign language as well as requiring the greatest effort.
ResponderEliminarOn the other hand, "monolingual subtitles" provide a pronunciation enhancement and a written reminder if we have missed out any pronounced words. I honestly think that any film should be viewed at least twice: firstly with "bilingual subtitles" and secondly with "monolingual subtitles".
Last but not least, we encounter dubbing. We must remind here that both dubbing and "bilingual subtitles" are forms of translations, and hence they do have a risk factor of inaccuracy, which might be dependant on may different variables. From a learning perspective, dubbing provides the least amount of effort, i.e. zero. Indeed, no foreign language is provided, therefore no effort, or what is worse, no learning takes place. We become like "passive viewers" who take a film experience solely as a form of entertainment. Using "bilingual subtitles", we are "active viewers" who participate more in the whole film process, and what is even better is that we "kill two birds with one stone", by also improving our foreign language skills.
Hi Pedro,
ResponderEliminarThanks for this detailed report on types of subtitles, I wasn't aware of this.
Wow! It's hard to add something new now since all of the ideas I support, or most of them, have been already said...
ResponderEliminarI obviously prefer subtitled films. As Dani said, nowadays I only watch dubbed films when I go to the cinema and because there is no other choice, not because I like it.
Watching films, or whatever it is, in original version is one of the best practices an English (in this case) learner can do to improve his/her listening skills. What's more, it's also good because you can acquire vocabulary without realizing and also improve your pronunciation in a very unconscious way.
Very good reasons for watching films subtitled, thanks.
ResponderEliminarI am in favour of watching subtitled films and it is the one that I usually use because we can make cultural associations between the language and its country. Besides, subtitled films support the learning process of a language, especially in the branch of pronunciation, which is the most difficult to get.
ResponderEliminarAs the sound of the film change when it's dubbed, I get upset if I notice that in the "Spanish version" of it some scenes have another completely different meaning than the original because of the usage of sound, for example this would happen if the characters are eating in a restaurant and we only listen to the sound of the voices and not to the sound of the whole environment too.
However I also understand that some people find it difficult to read subtitles and watch what is happening in the film at the same time, thus depending on the person it will be nicer to watch a film subtitled or dubbed.
I also prefer watching films with subtitles because thanks to it, you can see and listen language in 'real context' (although it is film); you can perceive expressions or words that are equivalent to your mother tongue and so on.
ResponderEliminarIn my case, I used to watch films with subtitles but I did not like American accent so much, so I stopped. Nowadays, I prefer going to the cinema and sometimes I watch a film with subtitles at home.
As far as I am concerned, watching films with subtitles is an 'activity' for improving language skills.
Regarding the translation of the film's titles I don't believe that a literal translation is a good one, as far as I'm concerned. We have to take into account the target culture where the film is going to be exhibited. It's such a work to be a translator.
ResponderEliminarI am agree with most of my classmates because I prefer watching films with subtitles rather than watching dubbed films, especially when you want to learn a language, because it aloud the possibility to understand the dialogues and to listen character´s voices and how they pronounce.
ResponderEliminarSo, If we decide to watch dubbed films we should know that it is possible to have grammatical mistakes and that it changes the real perception of the film. This link, http://www.pepe-rodriguez.com/Anuncios_links/Links_miscelanea/Links_miscelanea_cine_doblaje_gazapos.htm , shows a website in which there are lots of mistakes when films have been translated. For example, the film “ Saving the Private Ryan” in the Spanish translation we can listen: “han habido 18 muertos, señor!”
I strongly recommend to use subtitles instead of dubbling. For us, students of our degree, it is obvious that it will helpful to use subtitles more than using dubbling. Subtitles helps us to follow the plot of the film (or the series) and moreover, we develop a better listening level and at the same time, the reading skill is also developed. Moreover, the accents and the character’s voices can help us to create our own accents and to learn how to be as fluent as possible. Futhermore, we can learn typicl sentences that can be used in several contexts only by listening or reading them on the films.
ResponderEliminarAppart from that, I think that dubbling is very useful too, over all for those people who do not understand English or who are not into learning new languages. Moreover, there is a lot of people who go to the cinema only to have fun and not to be listening and trying to understand a movie in a foreign language as English. For that reason, I think that all the movies here in Spain are dubbling.
Finally, I believe that it could be really interested to have a kind of cinema with real version films, without any kind of dubbling.
If someone wants to learn English is recommended to use subtitles to get more vocabulary, improve pronunciation and understanding other accents. When I lived in my country I saw the subtitled movies because movies are not dubbed there
ResponderEliminarsometimes they put movies dubbed by Mexicans but most movies are subtitled, this also happens in cinema.
Just arrived in Spain I used to watch dubbed films but now I try to watch subtitled films.
So... coming back to your origins... That's always a wise thing to do, specially when it benefits your language learning.
ResponderEliminarAs most of my classmates, I normally watch films with subtitles, and sometimes even without them in order to challenge myself, and see if I can actually understand what I am hearing, but it is true that it is difficult sometimes.
ResponderEliminarRegarding the language of the subtitles, I think both English and Spanish should be used. The advantage of reading in English is that it gives you the possibility to relate what you are reading with what you are hearing, becoming aware of the pronunciation of many words you did not know and being able to recognize them afterwards in any context. As well, Spanish subtitles are also helpful as you become acquainted with the meaning in Spanish of the words and expressions, knowing therefore, how they are translated into English.
In my opinion, I encourage people to take the advantage of switching to original version from their remote control, as it is such a different experience to watch a film listening to the actors’ real voices! Moreover, it is very beneficial as you consciously and unconsciously learn new vocabulary, expressions and different accents; as well as you also develop you entonation and pronunciation skills.
Unfortunately, it is true that it is not a developed practice in our country. However, that is mainly because people are not used to it, and resist to move away from the simplicity and comfort of dubbed films.
I prefer the use of substitles because dubbing can change the meaning of the original message, moreover to learn English, or whatever language, is best to watch film or listen music in the original version, because it is the best way to learn a second language easily. However, I watch TV programmes or films which are dubbed because it is more easy for me to understand them.
ResponderEliminarFor language learning is always better the subtitles instead of dubbing in whatever language.
ResponderEliminarI agree with most of my partners, I usually watch films and TV series with subtitles, also I try to watch without them, but it’s difficult for me to follow the whole film. I watch dubbing films when I watch it at the cinema or when I am going to watch with my family or friends because they don’t like to read the subtitles and look to the scenes at the same time, I know that is a bit stressful. The funny thing of dubbing is that when you are listening to one actor, for example Will Smith, then you watch another film with another different actor; you realize that their voices are the same.
Another curiosity related to this is that the animated film, “Dr. Seuss the Lorax” (“Lorax: En busca de la trufula perdida”, see the Spanish translation), one of the actors is Danny Devito and I heard that he recorded his same voice in English and in Spanish as well, so he did the effort to translate his own voice, I don’t know if I explain well.